Dear Gabor, In support of those who raised their voice in this matter (namely, Marco Grandis), I would like to say that although maybe naive, this alarm call is surely not even mildly hypocritical. Notice that to protest against one particular issue does not exclude protesting about others, surely more fundamental as you rightly point out in this case. For this reason, I think that your questioning in the paragraph below is out of order and calls for a retraction. It seems to me that you assume too much about those who were brave enough to let us all be aware of this issue, and to whom we should be grateful.
And I said hypocritical, because I do wonder where the same good souls were at the time of the invasion of Iraq, during the war in the Balkan, or what do they think about what is happening in Israel. I wonder if the same worried scientists who propose to boycott Reed-Elsevier have already signed the academic boycott against Israel, and would participate in a similar action against the US as a protest against its foreign policy.
In a more detailed answer to this paragraph, I firmly believe (from first-hand knowledge) that the same worried scientists who would sign a petition to criticize Reed-Elsevier would also sign petitions against unjustified wars and invasions, such as those perpetrated by the current US government and its allies (and that includes the UK and Israel -- although I find that the latter is a trickier issue and tends to be simplistically confused with antisemitism). Any of such actions may be considered naive in view of the results they cause (well -- not always! see the recent US elections) -- nevertheless it is the duty of any conscientious scientist to raise his/her voice against any crimes against humanity, regardless of who perpetrates them. The case of Reed-Elsevier touches us more closely than any other, as (say) mathematicians who publish in reputed journals cannot simply ignore Journal of Pure and Aplided Algebra, Topology, Advances in Mathematics, etc. This case, unlike the larger and more fundamental issues, is within our reach, and that is what makes it so special. I fully agree with Marco Grandis having raised the alarm in this forum, precisley for this reason. Unlike you, I am not wondering why is he (or others) not doing likewise with other causes in this same forum. The reason is simple -- this is an ACADEMIC matter and therefore, as academics (not politicians), we can in principle do something effective about it. We may individually sign lots of other petitions, write letters to newspapers, and disseminate difficult to get inflormation colncerning the larger and more fundamental issues. But to bring those larger issues to the attention of this forum would, in my view, and I am sure also in the view of ther moderators, be inappropriate. This, on the other hand, is not. I understand that the entire editorial board of Topology recently resigned as a protest against their profiteering (without much effort -- who does the writing of papers, refereeing, preparing camera ready articles or proofreading? not them -- yet they charge outrageous prices for their journals), knowing far too well that Thirld World countries cannot afford such outrageous subsciptions. Would it be possible to promote such an action for this far more important issue of arms dealing (a worse case of profiteering and also more inmoral as it concerns human lives, not "just" access to scikentific journals)? To end, I largely agree with your concerns. I am only asking you to be less judgemental in your assesments without analysing the situation further. It may be unjust and hence unnecessarily insulting. Best wishes, Marta ************************************************ Marta Bunge Professor Emerita Dept of Mathematics and Statistics McGill University 805 Sherbrooke St. West Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 2K6 Office: (514) 398-3810 Home: (514) 935-3618 marta.bunge@mcgill.ca http://www.math.mcgill.ca/bunge/ ************************************************
From: Gabor Lukacs <lukacs@cc.umanitoba.ca> To: categories@mta.ca Subject: categories: Response to "Elsevier and weapons trade" Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 19:46:42 -0600 (CST)
[Note from moderator: as the poster points out, categories is not a forum for political discussion. Consequently, further messages on this topic received before Monday will be digested and posted then, closing the discussion.]
Dear Colleagues,
I am responding to the posting of Marco Grandis.
I would like to express my heartfelt admiration to all those who raised their voice against Elsevier's involvement in the arms trade. I find it so noble that many scientists found time to express their outrage and protest.
At the same time, I cannot help saying that I find the whole initiative childishly naive, and even somewhat hypocritical. Naive, because apparently, they believe that wars are because of the arms trade -- in other words, they seem to mistake the cause with the result. (If there were no wars, would there be any point in manufacturing weapons? Let me ask it clearer: Would it bring *profit* to manufacture arms in that case??)
And I said hypocritical, because I do wonder where the same good souls were at the time of the invasion of Iraq, during the war in the Balkan, or what do they think about what is happening in Israel. I wonder if the same worried scientists who propose to boycott Reed-Elsevier have already signed the academic boycott against Israel, and would participate in a similar action against the US as a protest against its foreign policy.
I am raising these issues not in order to generate a political discussion on a categories forum (which is definitely not the appropriate place for such a discussion), but rather to illuminate the disproportional nature of the suggestion action. It appears to me an overreaction, and directed against the wrong entity.
With best wishes,
Gabor Lukacs
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