Reply to Jim Stasheff: Dear Jim: I use elements all the time and cannot imagine not using them. I have proved one major embedding theorem that sanctions the use of elements in exact categories. but my elements aren't sets and don't have elements inside them and so my sets (objects, really) have no irrelevant structure. I just happened to read a very nice essay by Colin McLarty on this very ssubject that I received the same day I posted my flame. Incidentally, I have had a pleasant exchange with Barwise. First off, apologies to his collaborator Larry Moss, for not mentioning him (although it is not clear he lost anything thereby). He said, in effect, that he likes categories, in their place, but not when they leave that place. He then left for two weeks (I think it was in Japan) before it could continue. I will try to get more deeply into that when he returns. Michael =====================