_____________ The discussion on a drawing module for LaTeX at present is only about the syntax in which one has to "program" one drawings. Of course that involves quite a lot of personal taste and routine. But shouldn't we first somehow decide how we want to make our drawings? As I see it there are two sort of drawings I make. Routine ones of a type that I make often and new ones. Simple commutative diagrams e.g. belong to the first class, and I am a happy user of Paul Taylor's package to express them quick and concisely in LaTeX. Drawings of the second type I typically make with pencil and paper. If I decide to include such a drawing in my LaTeX text, I have a problem. How to to represent this drawing in LaTeX? I don't want to experiment with many different packages to discover that they can or cannot represent my drawing in LaTeX. So I remember my old MacIntosh and its MacDraw program. Yes, I can make the drawing, but for the problem (1) that I cannot use LaTeX for the various bits of text which are included in my drawing. Anyway suppose I overcome this somehow, then I have a second problem (2) to include such a drawing in LaTeX. Yes, I can make a postscript version and include it, but this process is slow and clumsy especially if I want to edit the drawing at some stage. Suppose I just want to rename some labels, I am forced to go through the whole procedure... What I would like is the following: the drawing in my document is made by a special editor, part of the tex system. If I want to make a picture, I would like to be able to open a window, as on the Mac, and make the picture in this window, being able to use LaTeX text fragments (which depending whether I click on it with the mouse is either in editable LaTeX form or in "print" form). And have all the wysiwyg drawing freedom that such MacDraw package provides me (moving around bits and pieces, turning them, drawing lines, arrows with definable heads and tails etc): including fancy stuff as stretching and bending lines, hiding objects behind others, shading them etc etc. I don't think I want to see the "TeX" code of the picture, This bit of code should automatically be part of my document (say as an appendix produced by the TeX system), so that I can send it to other people as one file. When I LateX the document, the picture should appear in the text, at the specified place. It this a feasible dream? Would it be useful? Does it exist already? Isn't this easier then decide upon some abstract syntax? Is such a dream heresy from the TeX point of view? Fer-Jan de Vries, CWI, Amsterdam. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++