Naive question: game semantics vs game theory
Hello, What relation if any is there between game semantics and game theory a la von Neumann/Nash? Also what is relationship between game theory in model theory and von Neumann/Nash game theory? Kind regards, Bill Halchin
Bill -- One difference is that von Neumann/Nash games typically assume a payoff (a reward or loss) to participants upon termination of the game, whereas the abstract games discussed in game semantics usually do not assume this. Players in the latter either just win or lose, or the game is drawn, at termination; there is no other reward to the players. Accordingly, the games of game semantics are closer in spirit and design to the dialogue games studied and played by philosophers since at least the time of Aristotle, and which now form the basis for design of computer interaction protocols. Presumably the reseach funding agencies who sponsored Aristotle's research will be pleased that it is, at long last, being exploited commercially! Best, -- Peter McBurney University of Liverpool
Peter McBurney wrote:
Bill --
One difference is that von Neumann/Nash games typically assume a payoff (a reward or loss) to participants upon termination of the game, whereas the abstract games discussed in game semantics usually do not assume this.
Although it seems that three-player generalizations of the latter type of games may need something more nuanced than just "win" or "lose" to ensure that there is not a situation in which a player who cannot himself win may make an arbitrary choice of which other player does so. One obvious solution is to declare a "winner" and "loser" [who has to pay the winner, wash the winner's car, or whatever], and (for instance,in a Nim-type game) to declare that the player due to play immediately after the winner is the loser. It is then not a matter of indifference to any player how the game turns out. However, there are wheels within wheels: for in a game that is not completely trivial [a trivial game would be like Nim with N piles of size 1, in which there are no bad moves] there is the possibility that the player who is due to come in second if everybody plays to maximize their immediate position may choose to "throw" the game, moving to third place and putting the erstwhile loser into the lead. This would be an irrational play on its own, but in combination with a pact for the new leader to throw the game in turn, both conspirators would end up ahead of their original positions. The question now is - is there honor among hustlers? Will the original loser renege? Can the pact be enforced? This lands us fair and square in the middle of the von Neumann/Nash kind of game theory. What if anything this says about generalizations of game sematics I do not know. John H. Conway told me when I was a graduate student that this area was under active investigation by somebody or other, but I haven't heard of anything that came of it. -Robert Dawson
At 12:32 07/05/2004 +0100, Peter McBurney <p.j.mcburney@csc.liv.ac.uk> wrote:
One difference is that von Neumann/Nash games typically assume a payoff (a reward or loss) to participants upon termination of the game, whereas the abstract games discussed in game semantics usually do not assume this.
That is a nice point. In consequence, so far as I know, no one is interested in `mixed strategies' for games in set theory or semantics. There is no sense to the `average/expected payoff' for a randomized strategy as there is no payoff. Mixed strategies are the focus of most economic and such uses of game theory. The usual question is how to find optimal mixed strategies when there is no winning one. The usual question for games in set theory or semantics is just whether one player has a winning strategy. That is the only question in the uses I know of.
participants (4)
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Colin McLarty -
Galchin Vasili -
Peter McBurney -
Robert J. MacG. Dawson